Family Chat: Racial Dynamics As A Corporate Girly With My Cousin, Shailyn Tirado
In this episode, Shailyn Tirado and I talk about racial dynamics in corporate settings.
Summary
Shailyn addresses microaggressions in a global team's virtual room, focusing on gender and racial dynamics. Taylor and Shailyn discuss the benefits of pandemic productivity, all-women meetings, and the significance of hair identity, highlighting challenges like unsolicited hair touching. The role of hairstyles in identity expression and anti-discrimination, referencing the Crown Act, is discussed alongside authenticity versus corporate jargon. The conversation, enriched by family discussions on identity, underscores the importance of confronting inappropriate behavior.
Transcription
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Hello and welcome back. This is our final family chat of season one of on the outside. Hello, you cannot believe it. This is our final family chat of the season. I got my girl, my cousin Shailene back for another conversation. Honestly, one of my favorite conversations. But I feel like I also say that for everyone because I'm speaking to people that I not only the family chats, but all the episodes with the guests as well.
Just people that I honestly love, respect, admire and view as friends or actually family members. So I'm just really grateful that I had so many amazing conversations this season and we got another one coming at you. So let's get into it.
Hello, friends and welcome back this week is another family chat with my cousin. If you didn't hear her last week, if you didn't get to know her, then you gotta go back and listen to that one. But today we got another little conversation going. We're actually talking about her life as a corporate girly, which I can't really relate to because I've not really been a corporate girly. So I am excited to learn. I'm excited to hear the tea, I'm excited to, to know the vibes.
Shailyn Tirado
Well, I feel like being a, being a corporate girly is a, it's, it's a whole lot of nothing and it's essentially it can be like ducking microaggressions depending on how you sit within the corporate sphere as a Black Latina woman. I'm a regional director, a regional research director. And so my team covers all of the Americas. And so what that means is that I have a UK counterpart who covers sort of Europe, Middle East and Africa.
And then we have our Hong Kong colleagues as well. So there's the three of us who make up our global team. And so our global head of research who's based out of London obviously will have collective global calls just to make sure that we're all kind of progressing at the same pace that our teams are doing well, giving updates on I have 12 direct reports.
So, so do my, my colleagues have a little bit less and so on and so forth. And I remember in 2020 when I was first promoted to this role, our team consisted of the global head of research, who's a Scottish man, the UK head of research who is a British man. the Hong Kong head of research who was a Southeast Asian man. And we had some other colleagues who kind of ran our events team and stuff essentially long story short men across the board for, for being white men, one being a brown man.
And, and I will be honest, all of my colleagues are good people and I enjoy working with them. But I remember in the first meeting that I joined after getting promoted, I remember specifically, I remember knowing this fact and yet I was, I wanted to make everyone uncomfortable. I don't know why, but I was committed to the discomfort of others.
And so, and I was not uncomfortable, you know, Me Taylor, I'm very much like I'm outspoken, I'm vocal, I'm not shy to speak my mind and of course, we have this global call and right before my manager kicks it off, I'm like, am I the only woman on this call? Obviously, I know that, you know that and, and, and my global manager, he was like, and then start, obviously, we're in a virtual room.
So he starts to like look around the virtual room and he's like, I believe so. And I was like, oh and I'm also the only black person like I just threw that in for just an extra and he was like, looking around. Yeah, it looks like it could be. And then of course he looks at my colleague in Hong Kong like not wanting to identify him but also being like, but he's a brown man.
Yeah, looking brown over there and yeah, so I was just like, Oh, ok. Ok. Anyway, carry on and I just sat there with a smile, like, ready to collaborate and to be that not a corporate Erin. I don't know if you've seen the corporate Erin.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
I love, I love corporate Erin when she's her normal self, it's like jarring. I'm like, oh my God, that's like you, you being your regular self, like not being corporate Erin. Yes.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado
So I'm thinking I live for those moments.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Yeah. No, I love it. That was cracking me up. Like you saying, I don't know why I said it, but I did say it. Have you said it on any other calls after that?
Shailyn Tirado
Like similarly. Yes. Yes. It's hard to do with the same people obviously, right? Because like most of my team is still consistent. So like they, my colleagues like, haven't changed their positions, neither have I? So, but they, when I'm on other calls, for example, maybe a month or two ago I had a call with, I think it was like our head of marketing, our head of awards or head of somebody else, our editor and it was just women on this call and it was diverse women all over it.
Like we had Asian women, we had black women, we had and it was maybe it was like a 30 minute meeting was supposed to be, we got everything we needed with like eight minutes to spare. The last few minutes, we were all like, look how productive we were when there are no men in the room where we're just like, what do you need?
I haven't ready by this. This, this, this, this is our timeline. This is our proposal. This is when you'll have it. This is when sales can hit the market. Da da, da, da, da. And we were like, wow, with time to spare and all of us collected, we were like, this is what happens when you get women together. We just get 100%.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
No, there's actually research about that. And now I feel like this needs to be a whole regular episode because for those, I actually do all the research for the family chats. It's just vibes and combos. But there is research about like black women that were like CEO S and presidents of companies and how much more productive they were in like their delegation, their time management, just like overall like t that flow just everything.
And I there's like actual, actually a study was done and I remember hearing about it on another podcast being like incredible. And then on a different podcast this morning, I was hearing how black women during the pandemic, like when they were working from home were so productive because they didn't have to deal with like the mental and emotional toll of microaggressions.
They were like, wow, I'm just home not being harassed. This is amazing. Like, love it. Like, I appreciate so much now because in grad school. Sure. I do see the same people every week but like, you don't really chit chat that much because you don't know each other. You don't, you definitely don't know the whole class like that. Well, you maybe know like a few people a little bit better but it's not really the same vibes of like, work, walking into a job, you know.
So if I change my hair, especially, like, I change my braids, I change from braids to a ponytail, I wear a different ponytail. I don't really get any comments, but that was something that used to like give me so much anxiety when I worked in the same place every day. Like I'm going to walk in and usually I would say something first like guys, I changed my hair because let's just get it over with, let's just freaking rip the band aid off so that I don't have to be like waiting for someone to be like, oh my God, you're here so long. Yeah, it's fake. It's fake. This is made of plastic. It continues to be made of plastic every single time these braids are literally not from my scalp like yeah.
Shailyn Tirado
So I still experience that. Yeah. And to your point exactly. From going from curly hair to braids to, you know, I want to give myself a blowout. There's always comments, there's always comments and there were comments in person and, and admittedly, I'm, I'm a big like video on kind of girl. I don't like to force others to do it, but I just tend to have my camera on. So obviously, inevitably that welcomes comments on, you know, physical appearance and hair is definitely one.
I'm sure there's, there's probably not a black woman on this planet who hasn't had some kind of comment being made about hair in some form or fashion, whether it's compliments or not so favorable but or, or it's the compliments masked as or, you know, something unfavorable, masked as something else.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
I remember I had a manager who I actually absolutely loved like she was iconic. She was a white woman but she was like very, very with it, very great vibes, very great energy, like loved her. And one time I had gotten my braids done and they admittedly were like very fun. Like I don't remember what I got, but it was like the first time I got this style, they like very fun.
And I remember she was like, oh my God, your hair looks amazing. And then as her hand is coming out, she literally, she literally goes like this ha like pretend it's a yawn because I think midway through she was like, what am I doing? And she like stopped herself and I literally was laughing so hard. I was like, I was like, that was amazing. I didn't say anything to her because yeah, she was an incredible manager, but we weren't like BFF like I wasn't going to be like, were you gonna touch my hair and then you did it and then you pretend you y I like that very deeply though. I respected it so hard. She literally was like ha nice little stretch by and like runs away. And I was like, I love this for you girl. Honestly, you stop yourself from doing it. And that was amazing. You did the right thing.
Shailyn Tirado
Yes. Oh my God. First of all, I probably would have hugged her just for, for the effort. And even though yeah, maybe, you know, we shouldn't be celebrating the stuff that people should know is so is so low. But I have had someone not retract. I have had someone not retract and literally just me feel hand in hair. And it was a colleague of mine who is a good person deep down.
She is Irish, like from Ireland, like only in New York a few years and was very much like before I could even say anything, her hand was in my hair. And I remember turning around and my guyanese friend was literally like all like already anticipating with eyes large and beady just like already anticipating me flipping my shit. And I remember her being like and like going and being like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
And kind of like removing her hand from my scalp. Yeah. And then her being like, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. And like walking with her somewhere else and me being like, yeah, and I remember in that moment me being, having to say to myself like, she's not from here, she's not from here. She's not from here. Like I had to talk myself off a ledge. Which one is not fair to me. Like I should have had every right to kind of just like spaz 100%. But at the same time, it being like, I'm at work because this was pre COVID day. So we were in the office and me being like, she didn't mean it. She doesn't know she just got here. I was intentional by being like, I accept your apology. We're good. Let's move on. You know, but I didn't want to say it's OK because the next woman she encounters might not be as generous as me or might not be and I wouldn't expect them to, you know, who knows?
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado
I just didn't but it was a very, but it's something you don't forget.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
No, I don't think that I have. I mean most of my life especially. Well, when I was like a little kid. Yeah, people would touch my hair all the time. Like adults would touch my hair all the time. Other kids in my class would touch my hair all the time. Kids used to put like sticks in my hair like they see how many leaves and sticks they could put in my hair in recess without me feeling it because if you just like put a leaf in my hair, I can't feel it.
But also if I just put a leaf on top of someone with straight hair, they also can't feel it. Like what like all this unique but it would like stick in my hair obviously. So it was no, it was super racist. No, it was super racist. So that but then most of my like middle school through my adult life, I wore weave or like extensions or something. So my hair was like straight.
So that wasn't really necessarily something like I wouldn't, I didn't really experience people touching my hair then. But one time especially when I started working in fitness, I would be paralyzed in fear and I still experience it today, but I am getting so much better with it. I am paralyzed with fear when I'm in a locker room and I have to take my hair off to shower like literally, that was so so horrible for me. My first few years now I from 1 to 10 in the beginning I cared out of 10.
Now I'm probably at like a two like I feel mildly uncomfortable because it's like I'm taking my hair off and like someone might look at me and I don't love that, but I don't actually care what they think or feel like it's gonna be an issue. And once my, once I take my ponytail off. I'm like, OK, I'm fine now it's just like that initial part. I'm always like kind of hate this. So that being said, I was in the locker room. I'm proud of you.
Shailyn Tirado
10 to 2. Thank you. A milestone. Yeah.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
And I took my ponytail off and I had my like bun that's underneath, that's like my hair that the ponytail clips onto. And this girl came up to me and like went like tapped it with her hand. She was like, oh you just have such a little bun, like went like that to my head like this white woman that I worked with. And I remember, I remember crying after that, like feeling actually so upset by it.
But like, I it's like one of those things I wish I could go back in time. So I would say I would say I would say this, I would say that like I would say all this stuff, but I it was kind of like my worst fear came true, right? Because I was always so scared to take my hair off because what if someone sees me? What if they say something? And then they did? And in some ways it was like, ok, well, it can get worse than that.
So I think that actually kind of helped me because I was like, not that it wasn't racist that she doesn't suck because she does. But in some ways it kind of helped me because I was like, ok, well that happened already. Like the worst thing that I thought would happen like someone saw me and they did and you know, I survived.
Shailyn Tirado
It's one thing to see you. It's another thing to touch you.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Oh no, that was crazy.
Shailyn Tirado
Like the pat is in insane, insane.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
But now like, I definitely feel like you only had the braids that you just had from grandpa's birthday. I feel like you only had them for a minute. How long do you keep yours in?
Shailyn Tirado
So I normally will keep them at least 30 days. But I will say because I got COVID my, my scalp, I couldn't be bothered with anything touching me, me going to sleep and putting my hair in my bonnet, it would slip out and I would feel the on my neck when I was already, when I already felt a lot of tension on my, on my head and I was sick with COVID and I had fevers and left and right. And I Taylor when I tell you I was this close to just taking the scissor straight to the scalp because I, I was like, how am I going to find the time to, you know, remove it from the bottom and filter it out? And then, you know, you have to like, wash your hair because you get the residual absolutely hair strands and I didn't wash it right away. I spent like four days just like living in a nest and when I finally washed it, it was you already know how that goes. But yeah, that's the only reason why I didn't keep it.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado
So to your point, it was less than two weeks because I was gonna say I was like, I feel like you didn't have those that long.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
But yeah, wearing braids now is the most like healing thing for my soul and spirit. I think I am going to cut my hair off though. Like I'm going to cut it short.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado
Like my mom, I think I'm just gonna, that's the cut I've always wanted like a real Tony Braxton.
Shailyn Tirado
Your mom has had the short hair game unlock for decades. Like your mom has been that girl.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado
She has in good hands.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Yeah, I think I'm gonna cut my hair off because what I've hated about my hair my whole life is that it's not long like I always just wished it was more and it was long like I, I mean, not even more because I never wanted it to grow like out. I just want it to be long like I wanted long hair and my hair is never gonna be long. So I think if I cut it short, then it will be like intentionally short.
So it might actually be like easier for me. But yeah, all that being said, having braids has been like so healing for my spirit and I definitely have to shout out Kira because Kira is also, I don't think her episode, it might actually be airing the same week as this episode now that I think about it. But Kira I love her. Yeah, she had her box braids like she always does. And I was like, I'm gonna try box braids and that was like when I got braids for the first time and I'm like, Kyra looks so incredible. But if I also look incredible and then I was like, yeah, 1 million out of 10 best decision of my life. So she knows this. I told her 5 million times. She's like, you don't have to thank me every time you get braids for changing your life. And I'm like, no, I do.
Shailyn Tirado
I'm like, thanks again, girl. You know what's so interesting that the first time I got braids in just like as an adult, I like, I would always get them for afropunk. So that festival that they have in Brooklyn every year II, I went for like six or seven years in a row with one of my best friends with Ken.
And he and I would always get braids for this festival because I was like, I'm in my blackness. Like I feel like this is a good space for me to have them. And this is something that I've said since then. But I feel my most beautiful when I have braids on.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado
Oh my God, I literally feel like no one can tell me nothing.
Shailyn Tirado
I feel like my confidence is on a million and I feel so in my element and, and if it wasn't because of the, not even the maintenance, it's such low maintenance to just wake up and you're dressed for the day and you're already feeling, but I'm literally beautiful, stunning. Right? And, but I felt like even I've said this to some of my friends and I'm like, no, I feel beautiful when I have braids on.
They're like, do you not feel beautiful otherwise? And I was like, honestly, no, not all the time, like not all the time, you know, and I'm like, but with braids, I feel like I'm always that girl.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Why don't you just get them like back to back? I feel like you don't get them that much.
Shailyn Tirado
I don't get them back to back, but mainly because I want to give my scalp room to breathe and because just like throughout life like I just feel like my like, you know, your hair recedes a little bit or you're not growing in certain areas a little bit. So I try to give my scalp room to breathe but it's not for, for not having the desire, loving them. Yeah, I literally feel like that girl when I have braids on.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
No, me too. I love. Did you see the Alicia Keys in the Super Bowl? Yes, of course. Her hair looked so. So good. Her hair looked amazing with her little baby hairs and I was, like, correct. I was like, yes, this is all I want. When I saw her, I was like, that's my new style.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado
That's my new style that I want to get the way that she had it because she had a little corn road and then also the down the, like, it was like twist.
Shailyn Tirado
Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Yeah. No, she looks so good. But I totally agree. Do you feel, have you been, well, you don't work in an office now, right. All of your works remote.
Shailyn Tirado
I work remote. Yeah. Only when I fly into New York do I kind of pop into the office because we have like, a one day a week kind of policy now.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Yeah, because I think about, like, you know, I was talking about braids and everything like that experience in a corporate setting because I know it's something, there's like the Crown Act. Do you know what the Crown Act is? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So there's the Crown Act with people, you know, really fighting to have equal treatment for all hairstyles when there's like, whether it's in schools or in corporate settings, being made to feel like it's not professional.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado
And I think that is, and also being removed from certain things, like, they're also like, people are not allowed to graduate, not allowed to work, not to walk in graduation, not allowed to go to prom to these types of decisions.
Shailyn Tirado
Yeah. Which is, it's just so ridiculous when I really sit and think about like, is this what we're fighting about? Do we not have enough challenges in this world that we're creating another obstacle for people? And it's their hair, like how it naturally grows out of their scalp. What do we do?
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
I because I always think about wearing my, I mean, being in grad school, it's not a corporate setting but it is, you know, it definitely has the undertone of like, it's an Ivy League school and it has the undertone of like just being in the world of academia and like, what you should look like if you're presenting at a conference or if you're, you know, doing something serious, if you're a serious student and I, I always feel very much intentional about like wearing my braids, wearing my hair, like being as authentically close to myself as possible. Even I focus so hard on trying not to code switch into who I feel I become when I'm in those spaces because for me, it's always, you know, the way I talk like one I call and this is I don't necessarily do this like in my classes, but I call everyone girl, like what's up girls instead of like what's up guys, like what's up girls? Like, hey, girls, that's to everyone or even saying like, love that for you or like whatever. And I still answer my questions like that in class. Like, I'll be like, really hated that for me. When I read this paper, I was, it was giving nothing. And I like, because that's who I'm gonna be in the world. Always, even when I started this podcast, I was like, oh, I need to be so serious. I want to be taken seriously. I want to be seen as an expert on these topics, but like, I am an expert on these topics and I also talk like this, right?
Shailyn Tirado
You know. Right. Honestly, I think breaking that threshold is so hard because we've, I think we've all grown up even like generations before us, right? Everybody has their customer service voice, right? Where you're just like trying to get sorry that came out of nowhere.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
I love that it came up while it was happening.
Shailyn Tirado
You were like so sorry, I'm so sorry.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Ok, wait, let me cough too coming. No, it's not your coughing. But, ok, so go back to the customer service voice.
Shailyn Tirado
So typically I feel like even intergenerationally, this predates all of us. We all have a customer service voice when we're trying to get something accomplished or something signed off or something just because we want to be taken more seriously, so to speak. But to your point, you should be taken seriously based off of the content of what you're talking about, depending on the theme on the topic on, you know, whatever that you're trying to bring awareness to and it shouldn't have to be because of the style in which you choose to communicate like, and, and, and even the, you know, just to go back to the whole corporate errand thing, right? The reason why that's such a kick is because everyone can relate to those individuals who kind of put, put the face on, of speaking about, you know, getting all our ducks in a row and logging on to the portal.
And do you know what I mean? And like touching base circling back, like I'm guilty of using that language with my team. And then, but then at the same time, what I've realized gets the most out of my team is when I'm like, guys, let's just like, shoot the shit and this is what we need to do. We need to do it by then. And if anybody has issues, please bring it to the table, let's talk about it and so on and so forth. But it's not all the corporate jargon that you feel kind of confined to because that's not who you are and people can sniff that shit out. I feel people can constantly tell if you're not being genuine or if you're being, if you're just kind of putting the face on and I'm, I've been guilty of that. But like I said, what I've realized gets the most out of my colleagues and my team is when I'm just Shay from around the way. Like that's it.
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
You're just Shay from around the way.
Shailyn Tirado
That's who she is from around the way. That's it, you know, period, period. I'm just that girl and that corporate girly as opposed to just that girl. You know,
Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman
Thank you so much for coming and hanging out with me and my family. This season, these family chats have been so special because I've gotten to speak to people that I love and care about and know super well about things that we don't always get the opportunity to talk about. I really like these conversations because I think you got a little bit of a glimpse into kind of all the different sides of me between the three different types of episodes I put out this season. So make sure to send me a little DM on Instagram or write a review, letting me know what you thought of these family conversations. See you out there.
